I moved Bill Bauer's off topic infomercial from the Experian law suit thread.

Bill wrote:

If you are doing things the way I do, I don't care if they actually verify it or not. All I care about is do they claim they verified it and if so what was the name, company address and company phone number of the person having verified the information. That comes in a separate letter to them and always immediately after the verification is completed.

If I get a deletion, that's cool, but it isn't going to change anything. I'm still going to go after the creditor or 3rd party collector who were my actual target(s)in the first place. Most of the time, I am going to come up with at least one violation of FCRA by the 3rd party collector and m-a-y-b-e another of FDCPA with that one request for verification of the listing by the credit bureaus multiplied by anywhere from 3 to maybe as many as 5 credit bureaus. That can amount to as many as maybe10 to 15 separate violations of law on that one single factor alone.

Then we come to the validation letter itself. We can count on at least 3 to as many as maybe 5 to 7 more violations of FDCPA in the validation letter as well.

If we ever get to the courthouse door with them, the favorite topic of discussion for the day will not be their usual topic.

I suspect that this could possibly be the reason that I have never yet successfully hog-tied one and actually got him through the courthouse door. Seems they always like to slip out of the hog-tying process by whatever means such as asking if they might not get out of the noose around their neck by forgetting about the debt entirely. I am always open to such suggestions provided that they also remove any and all of their nasty derogatory comments from any and all records both public and private. They don't seem to mind a bit. Real cooperative people they turn out to be in the end.

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Bill, thanks, and a couple more questions.

1) Have you ever actually received CRA verification data?

2) Why are you not happy with a deletion?

I guess the readers here are a little on the cheap side and all they want is a clean credit report. I must be missing something.

Yes.
I didn't say I wasn't happy with a deletion. I just said it didn't make any difference re: the end result desired which is deletion of the actual debt as well.
How does that qualify them as being "cheap"?? I must be missing something. Me too.

I assume you CHARGE for your services. I sure do, $20 for every letter to a creditor legal department. So once an account is off the credit, I've never had a client wanting to spend more $$$ to mess around with a collection agency for the fun of it. Of course, I never offer either.

I've read literally many thousands of postings here, and few are about active collectors. Those are mostly pre-bankruptcy and I remember Morgan who was worried about garnishment and posted some pretty funny stuff.

The few people who had collectors calling on valid debts usually got the "cease and desist letter" advice. It seemed to work.

If you're saying that you eliminate all valid debts, stop those calls and you have 100% success, I'd like to know what that costs. My thing is credit, credit scoring and LEGITIMATE disputes, not wiping out valid debts, so I'd rather refer that out.

I get $35 a month until I get them all cleaned up no matter how many letters are involved Every credit bureau report I've ever seen involves a collector of some kind fueling the derog. That means that little is to be gained by disputing with credit bureaus only to chance the re-insertion later. So one has their choices. They can send wave after wave of letters trying to convince the credit bureau that a lie is the truth and the truth is a lie or they can rattle the lion's cage and shove a good stiff proposition down his throat and make him eat the debt and take it off the credit bureau files as well. That's a lot better in my opinon than fooling with the credit bureaus which is about as fruitful as mudwrestling with pigs. The end result is usually about the same. One gets all full of mud and the pigs love it.No need to be worried about garnishments. They are the product of judgments which are about 98% void upon their face and therefore easily nullified and removed. Once the underlying judgment is declared void, the garnishment is also void. Then it's back to court with a motion for summary judgment against the perpetrator of the false and frivolous lawsuit. Once they have bitten the bullet for their little prank it tends to put a pretty good hitch in their git-along. Seems they aren't too happy to hear from you again any time soon. Can't understand that. I'd just love to hear from them again just to see if they learned anything the first time.
Well, it might work to some extent, but how do you expect to ever get to the pay window that way? I just love to hear from them nice fellers. Without them, I might actually have to go to work again.
$35 per month just like I said earlier.Good! I'd rather you did too. Credit is fine, and of course, if you don't have any bad credit then credit is pretty easy to get. As far as credit scoring is concerned, I'm like Popeye. I yam what I yam. TOOT ! TOOT! As far as LEGITIMATE disputes goes, all my disputes are legitimate. It's not about the disputes, it's about finding out whether they can validate it or not. Never saw them do it yet. Maybe one of them will wake up and die right someday. It will be a monumental moment in history if and when they do.

Bill,

Generally speaking, when I owe somebody, and I don't pay, and they get a judgment because I didn't pay, why is that not a valid judgment if I was properly served and I owe the money?

Another one: I don't pay my credit card for 2 months. They report one 30 and one 60 day late.

How do you get rid of those lates?

I'm really confused by all your statements about law suits and courts. Earlier you posted "If we ever get to the courthouse door" and similar statements indicating that you've never been to court.

I'm missing something again. How many times have you been to court?

How many judgments did you have voided during the last year?

How many months does it take to get a judgment voided?

Personally, you could NOT pay me enough to do that kind of work. EVERY State has their own DIFFERENT court procedures and laws and regs. How do you deal with that?

Well, that's not a very good quote. Is that for $350 for 10 months or what?

When *I* send out a letter, I give the creditor 10 or 15 days (depending on the situation) to respond, and another "courtesy" 2 weeks UNLESS somebody is in the process of getting a mortgage and we need immediate results.

WHY do you charge a monthly fee?

When I take on a LEGITIMATE dispute, my client pays me $20 for the letter to the creditor legal department we can end up with one of three scenarios:

1) The creditor responds and agrees to remove the disputed account, we're done.

2) The creditor fails to respond. The client is then supposed to sue.

3) The creditor responds and doesn't agree to remove the disputed account, again, it's time to file the suit.

See
Capital One re-affirmation for a hybrid. Cap One denied everything, yet they did everything we asked for. The new reaffirmed account was closed and deleted, and the old charge-off was also deleted from all reports.

Of course my client should have sued for reimbursement of my fee, Cap One has no incentive to improve their business practices unless they get sued a lot and have to PAY. But who wants to sue?

I realize that many people would rather pay you for many months than go to court.

Aren't you charging $35 a month? Isn't that payment for your work?

Of course you like to hear from them, you're charging by the MONTH.

Do you think your clients appreciate paying you $35/month so that you can enjoy yourself?

WHY would anyone do that for LEGITIMATE disputes?

And isn't that what you are doing with the creditors?

That's for people who REALLY didn't pay their bills. Unless those accounts involve defective merchandise, fraudulent sales techniques, i.e. some kind of LEGITIMATE defense, spam disputes and or your spam attacks are the only option.

Wow, where've ya been, Bill? You don't know that LOTS of people without a single derog can't get a mortgage?

Many of the reports ** I ** see contain accounts that do not belong to my clients at all, there is NO collector fueling anything, all it takes is a simple CRA dispute.

Once a VALID collection is several years old, chances are pretty good to have it removed with a single CRA dispute.

MANY MANY accounts are duplicate and triplicate accounts, again, LEGITIMATE disputes.

Even more accounts are reported INCORRECTLY, often resulting in the deletion of all derogs. That's similar to what you're doing with outstanding debt, fishing for technicalities.

If any LEGITIMATE dispute is verified, it takes exactly ONE letter and the consumer can sue.

The chance of re-insertion ALWAYS exists - even if you have the VP of American Saving stating in a letter that they will remove the INCORRECT derog.

See American Savings - Old Republic

If the account was deleted due to a CRA dispute, the bureaus have to NOTIFY the consumer if it is re-inserted. Do you have that benefit when the creditor/collection agency removed the account? I don't think so.

And of course, once a collector sells the account to ANOTHER collection agency after you just got them to delete the account after who knows how many months and letters, you get to start all over.

I've been doing this for so many years now, no BS please.

Bill, I hope you don't mind my asking all these questions and setting a few things straight, but as you know, I also asked Junum and Lexington.

While I'm not going to recommend you for what *I* consider LEGITIMATE disputes - you obviously expect those to take over a month, I think you might be perfect for removing collections and judgments that are verified by the CRAs and creditors.

I think what you do is SPAM the creditors with legal threats until they get tired of you. And, if it works, that's fine by me.

I just really would like to know how much my clients can expect to pay you.

All law suits must have certain legal papers known as affidavits contained within them and filed with a court just for starters. A debt must be proven in a court of law or the court has no jurisdiction and therefore no power to act. There must be present sufficient cause of action in the form of affidavits or sworn testimony by competent witness to empower the court to act. Pleadings or statements by attorneys are not sufficient grounds upon which the court may act. Those are only 2 of the 18 separate indices which must be present before judgment can be granted. Lack of any of the 18 is grounds for reversal, thereby rendering a judgment or other proceeding void upon it's face. These are the basics of a court proceedings. It is simple basic procedures which the law demands for the protection of the rights of the accused. Even a death warrant is issued as the result of a judgment against the accused. It's a matter of basic civil rights. Do you want your rights violated just because you owe a debt?
We do not recommend use of our procedures for such matters. Those are best addressed in other ways.
That's quite true. Can't ever get a defendant to cooperate with the idea of going to court before a judge and jury and explain why he violated the consumer's civil rights and the law. Seems that's not the debt collector's favorite subject of conversation before a court of law. After all, he should have and probably did know the law. He simply thought the law didn't make any difference or that he was above the law or whatever. Maybe he just didn't care about your rights or your liberties or your freedoms. But then neither did Osami bin Laden, Hitler, Stalin and hordes of others. We are a nation of laws. All must obey the law and none are above the law. That's among the many things that has made our legal system what it is today. Would you support the right of a few clowns to undermine that? I doubt very seriously that you would. Is his right to collect any greater then your right to fair treatment under the law?
Never. I may know about the law but I'm not an attorney. If and when it gets that far out of hand, it's best to leave those matters in the hands of professionals.
Never kept track of them. I have no reason to. I don't charge for teaching others what little I know about the law. I just tell people what to look for and if it isn't there I suggest some things they might be able to do and one of them is to seek competent legal counsel. Then I just forget about it.
That is going to depend on how long it takes the court to set a date for a hearing on a motion to vacate void judgment for one thing.
All courts in all states are governed by Rules of Criminal and Civil Procedure and in the Federal System it is the Federal Rules of Civil or Criminal Procedure. They are pretty much uniform rules. But I handle all of that quite easily. No problem at all. Beyond a few simple basics to determine the likelihood of success I let a competent attorney worry about all the rest. They can't pay me enough to do that kind of work either. It would be illegal for me to accept any money for that.
If it went for a year, yes. Normal time for completion is more like 6 to 7 months on average.
Be real tough with them, eh? One violation of the client's rights and you whang them, eh? Well, that might work sometimes, but what does your client do if the creditor claims it was an honest mistake and they have safeguards in place as required by FDCPA to ensure that under all normal conditions such things do not happen. Your client would be rather hard pressed to prove to the court that their transgressions were not a simple case of human error not likely to be repeated, wouldn't he? But in case of such a reply by the creditor what would you advise that his answer would be if he does not have the preponderance of evidence proving the creditor wrong? And on top of that, how do you get the creditor to court on violations of FDCPA when they are specifically excluded from regulation by FDCPA?

Or do you just go ahead and do it to them because they are usually too ignorant of the law to know their rights? After all, who cares about the rights of the other fellow, eh?
On what grounds? Product safety violations, TILA violations, TSTW&CGATST?

Where?That was nice of them.
Your legal fee?Not I
Funny. I failed to realize that fact. I guess that's because if and when I tell them that I have done all that I can for them and they need to see a competent attorney with heavy experience in consumer protection law they are practically jumping up and down with glee because they know that they can finally really go get them.
Yes, but if it weren't for them nice collectors I might have to go dig ditches or sack groceries or something instead.
It's possible, doncha know? Maybe they are like the bill collector many years ago who was trying to collect a $20 debt. I wrote him a letter explaining why I could not pay him that month. He enjoyed my letter so much that he wrote back and asked me to send him another great letter like that explaining why I couldn't pay him next month. I wrote back again and told him I was so broke I could not afford the envelopes, stamps and paper to write on. Told him I needed all the paper I could get my hands on for bathroom sanitary purposes. So he sent me $5.00 a month for the next year so I could buy the necessary supplies to comply with his request. After the year he wrote back and told me he was sorry but he had already spent almost $80 and just could not see spending any more when I only owed him $20 to start off with. Said he really liked my letters though and he had every one of them and would cherish them forever. He wished me well and I never heard from him again.
Never could figure that out myself. Guess that makes two of us asking the same question.Hardly! It's just that they are apparently Too Stupid To Walk & Chew Gum At The Same Time so I have to feed it to them in little bites so they can grasp the dilemna they find themselves in.
Undoubtably that's quite true, Christine.

Most folks seem at least fairly capable of understanding that if they completely and totally failed to pay their bills for whatever reason they are going to have something besides a mouthful of funny words and a face full of shame and guilt when the wolf comes knocking on their door. Seems like they just can't stand the racket produced by the wolf outside the door howling his head off.
So they come to me to see if I got some way to run that sucker off and make him quit is ungodly howlings. I probably can get the job done. Haven't ever missed yet. I guess my spamshots hits him about like stones out of a sling shot. He sure does throw gravel getting the heck away from me.
Well, Christine, I'm jus an ole country boy so yes, I've heerd tell of them kinda people don't got no credit and then run out and expect to buy a fancy house. Heer tell sum of em want's it with no down and no interest for the first ten yeers too. No tellin whut sum of them cityslickers will dream up next. Oughtta have nuff commun sense ta know they gotta have credit ta git credit. LOL
Yes, that's probably enough to get the job done. That is if the personal grief and misery and violations of your clients rights don't mean nothing, if their character don't mean nothing then why not just save them $20 plus postage and not worry about it in the first place? It don't mean nothing that somebody somewhere was so interested in trying to steal from them or so careless they didn't care what they did to their reputations. That's just a harmless lil ole common mistake. Everybody makes them, right? No biggie?
That's quite true, but what about a family desperately needing to buy a house real bad but they are going to have to pay off a few thousand in back bills before they can put a roof over their heads? What about a family that needs a car to go to work because the old junkers the tote-the-note boys keep on foisting off on them break down before they can get the dumb thing paid for? And a multitude of other hardship cases? They gonna wait several years so the bills get old and beyond the SOL and then find out that some sleazebag went and got a judgment anyway? If you are going to run a good and legitimate service then you have to be able to handle almost any problem your clients might be needing you for. You have to win them all to be a winner. It's like a prize fighter's career. He works hard to become the champion if he can. But he gets punched out by some new comer, he's out like a light and although he can get himself painfully off the carpet, he's a has been from then on.
Quite true. Cherry pickin stuff. If that's all they got to worry about why not just show them how to get them off for free so you can get on with some real problems. I tell them they don't need to be paying money for what they can do for themsleves for free. I refuse to take money from those kinds of poor folks.
Technicalities makes great fish hooks. Best there is. Tested in the waters just outside of the judge's office by the judge himself. Sometimes he even has to pick 12 of the nearest fools to help him reel in the catch, but the fishhook holds firm every time.
That's true enough.
That's right, Christine. WoW do I love a situation like that. I think I got one like that coming up soon. NCO. Biggest collection agency in the nation. And if they did do what it looks like they did, I'm gonna shrink them down a good bit. I'm gonna make them prove the debt all over again and when they can't do that, they will be behind the slot machine shelling out the sheckels.
You may not think so, Christine, but maybe you just might get a wee leeetle different think if you check out 15 U.S.C. 1681 Sec. 611 (B)(i)(ii)(iii) and follow on through to 15 USC 1681 Sec. 611 (C). It's not all that long and so let me know if you changed your mind on the above or not.
I guess one needs to take a page from old Judge Roy Bean's court. He had to hang so many of them kinda birds that he built a scaffold that could hang 10 men at once.
Also it's kinda like we used to do back home on the farm. We would see so many sparrows perched on the back of the hayrack that I finally just got to where couldn't shoot them all fast enough with my old .22 before they flew off so I tied a string on the bullet and positioned myself so all I could see was one bird. I'd shoot him and the thread on the bullet would string them all up with one shot.
Come on now Christine, you know I would give you no BS.

Next message

No, I didn't know. Why would you ask them anything? They are credit repair agencies from what I hear tell. Only thing I know about credit repair is that it's about like mud-wrestling with pigs and the pigs love it.
I don't play those silly games.

Nov. 13 response by Christine: Bill, it's intersting to see that you respond to postings you don't even read: My Planetfeedback letter to Junum
No, I don't suppose you would now that you found out that I'd just tell them how to do that for free. You never would make any money after that and you'd be on welfare or ironing clothes in a laundrymac or something.

Nov. 13 response by Christine:

I don't think there's anything Bill could tell anyone how to do for free except bullshit.

I don't have the time to go through Bill's BS line by line, but I distinctly remember him posting somewhere that judgments are subject to federal law. Well, that's absolutly NOT true. I've been trying to collect a judgment in California, and the applicable law is the California CIVIL Code.

There is nothing like finding out line by line that somebody is really clueless.

Bye bye, Bill!
Don't make me no difference. Usaully don't make them much difference either so long as it's free. If they had to pay somebody like Lex or Junum to send round after round after useless round of disputes trying to make the credit bureaus believe that a lie is the truth or the truth is a lie at the rates they charge, then I imagine they might care a lot. Especially after they watch in horror as their good tradelines get disputed off and their bad ones staying there. That really gets them upset to say the least. I leave those kinds of tactics to the expert credit repair companies. Real pros, doncha know?That's most of them most of the time. And if that isn't quite true, you would have one heck of a time trying to convince most folks it's not true.Well now then, I don't just exactly do that, Christine. I just ask them a couple of questions real nice and friendly like and then start to let them in on the fact that they have a wee little problem or two that needs to be taken care of somehow. Never failed to get them to agree with me yet. They can almost always see the urgency of the situation real easy. I guess that's why they almost always use FEDEX overnight to inform all three credit bureaus that their little problem has to be taken care of real quick. They just don't want to waste no time making amends for their mistakes.That's good! I'm sure you will be real pleased that you can tell your clients that I've never failed yet. Probably will someday, but not yet.
Well, that's a little hard to tell. We know that it's likely to take 30 days or a little more to start with. That's because them birds know they can sit there on the end of the hayrack for at least 30 days or more if they feel like it. So 61 days after they got the first letter, they get another one that points out a few facts of life. Kinda tells them how the cow is gonna eat the cabbage. Sometimes that gets them to crowin a bit, sometimes it don't. They often just sit there on that there hayrack with their heads stuck under their wings (or somewhere) until they get another one at the 91 day point. That's the one they feel real good, the one with the thread on it It makes the feathers fly and they end up flopping around on the ground trying to figure out how they got in that shape and how to get out of it. sometimes they are stupid enough to ignore that one too, so it's time to go see the lawyer. Now then, there are a few little delays that can add to that a bit, and you can't logically shoot at more sparrows than the string is long, meaning the customer can only handle so many at a time. Maybe 5 or 10. So if he has maybe 50 or 60 like some of them do, it could take maybe 6 or 7 months.

That's about the best guess I can give you.

You have a nice day, now Christine.

Moved from the Lexington Law Firm thread

Maybe you just used the first term that popped into mind to cover the situation and are not misinformed at all. I have no way of knowing that.

But you said you would like to see their license revoked. Well, they don't have a license to be revoked. The state bar associations are not state agencies, only associations. Associations cannot issue licenses, only government can issue licenses by law. That's why when you go into a court clerk's office you see an attorney's inbasket where they deposit their cases in most places I have ever seen. And it tells them they have to put their bar# on the form when they apply for a court date and do other things with the court. The bar associations are nothing more than an association that helps to ensure that all attorneys are following the rules and are at least minimally knowledgeable. All the rest is nothing more than hype, pettifoggery, obfuscation and chicanery. They protect all the good old boys who pay them their association fees on a regular basis. It's all a sham designed to make the public think that attorneys are "competent legal counsel" but who defines "competent"? Is competent the ability to walk and chew gum at the same time? Ot is it that once admitted to the bar they no longer are so handicapped that they have to put their pants on one leg at a time like everyone else?

I've known a lot of great attorneys, but I sure would hate to bet my life that they are indeed "competent" for I know not what the standards of competency are for attorneys. I've never yet had a case in which I did not have to do all the work for the attorney I hired while he sat on his butt trying to figure out how to chew me out of more money. I always had to prepare their case for them and lay it all out for them and then they migh be competent enough to fill out the necessary forms and hopefully make it down to the courthouse on time.

If I use all the judgments I have seen that have been prepared by "competent" attorneys against debtors and have always been able to get all but one vacated for the very simple reason that the attorney for the plaintiff screwed up the case as my basis, and the fact that if one were able to look at all such cases throughout the US they would come up with a good 98% of them being vacatable for one reason or another then I would have to guess that we might be able to define about 1 to 2% of all attorneys are compentent.

I would not make a pimple on an attorneys butt, but I can beat 98% their judgment cases. You tell me what is a competent attorney then if you can.

Nice bar associations we got, eh?
Good for the protection of their "competent" attorney members and that's about all.

Bill, could you post something OTHER than self promotion?

How about YOUR complaints, law suits, or anything you've done to change how things suck?

But there is no self-promotion in my last message because I never charge a crying dime to help people who are having problems over judgments. I do that for free.

I've got a lot of webpages up that show the cases I've helped people with and how to file motions to vacate, how to prepare motions, court cases that they can cite to prove their arguments before the courts and it's all for free.

Famous landmark cases and the judge's decision. Cases like Radinsky v. U.S. (10th Cir Court of Appeals, 1964), Trinsey v. Pagliaro, Spears v Brennan and many more. All of it for free.

Then there are sample forms they can simply print out for free too. I paid good money for those forms from publishers of those forms and I just put them up for free in order to help people out.

Is that self-promotion?

Ok, Bill. You're going on my nerves.

I just looked at your site and it looks exactly like the scam sites that offer thousands for stuffing envelopes at home and whatever other crap and frauds.

All I could find was self promotion. You have NEVER posted anything useful here. In your private e-mails you've asked me to sell your CDs, and I told you "sure, get on an affiliate program and I'll be happy to list you at the BayHouse "ads" page."

You didn't, you're too damn cheap and think you can use MY forum for your self promotion free of charge.

Well, your constant selfpromotion and complete lack of substance are seriously going on my nerves.

I do have an extensive response to your previous postings here, but, unlike you, I've got important things to do these days.

Should I waste two hours pointing out your character flaws and constant misrepresentations of what you actually do?

Or should I scan the TU answer and related documents and think about my response?

Tough choice?

Not really. Please don't post at BayHouse until I have had the time to respond to your postings in detail.

THANKS, BILL!

Also, I already recommended your services and intend to do so in the future - to my clients who I *think* might benefit from your services, there are only a few.

Every time you take on a new client, *I* might actually be paying your fee in exchange for the info on what you're doing. I hope you'll be doing a great job.

Hi Christine,

I would like to add my input to this discussion. Bill also endlessly promotes his credit repair business on the Creditnet boards and others, although he will never admit that what he does is "credit repair".
If you ever mention another service, Bill will do his best to capitalize on the opportunity to promote his Credit Wrench services. He will either personally attack you or tell you why his service is so much better. He literally called me stupid for posting a link to a small claims court kit for which he said he scanned and posted on his website for free. Ethical? Legal? You be the judge. He gives potential customers tidbits of information for free and then offers real advice for the low price of $35/month (sarcasm). Maybe someone should return the favor and copy all of his "credit repair techniques" and post the information free on the Net.

It is ironic how anyone takes this guy serious when he writes letters through Planetfeedback to Capital One to cry about not getting increases on his SECURED card that he keeps going over the limit on. He lies in the letter and says he didn't know the card was secured when he opened it. So funny. If he practiced what he preachs on credit repair, then wouldn't he have perfect credit and NO SECURED cards? That is like a personal fitness trainer weighing 500 pounds and telling you he will whip you into shape for a monthly fee. Here is the link if you would like the details. http://www.planetfeedback.com/share...05468-0,00.html

He does have several Credit Wrench alumni that thinks the guy works miracles, but his advice is going to land someone in court one day. Although I am new, I wanted to add my opinions to this discussion. I believe that if you forbid him from ever mentioning his services on this forum, he will move on somewhere else to spread his nonsense and promotions.

I am not trying to start any trouble, and I will not post on this discussion again. I hope this does not come off as if I have some vendetta or personal problem with Bill. I do not. I simply do not agree with what he does, and I think it is very detrimental to the free sharing of knowledge and experiences. Thanks for listening. I hope for the continued success for this great forum. Goodnight.

Mike, appreciate your detailed posting. Bill was very upfront here and even posted (with a request for deletion after I read it) that he's only here to make money.

There's nothing wrong with making money, but the constant self promo, his misleading and incorrect statements, along with his web site "design" really got to me - I can only take so much, and Bill just can't take a hint, not even a bunch of hints.

I also don't like that he puts everybody else in the biz down, yet does NOTHING to change the biz. I didn't see any complaints filed by him against other companies, couldn't find any of the "useful" stuff he promised at his web site, and I can't recall a single bit of useful info posted here.

That doesn't mean that he can't provide a good service for CERTAIN people with a very distinct credit report, but it's a shame that he is so CLUELESS about credit scores and general credit worthiness. That's probably why he had a secured Cap One card.

Not having any judgments or collections doesn't automatically make you a good credit risk.

Whenever I have some SPARE time I will respond to Bill's previous postings in detail just because there are so many incorrect statements. Right now I got MANY more important things to do.

Moved from the Lexinton thread.

I seriously doubt that Lex, Junum or other such companies are doing anything illegal. As you say that Lex pointed out, if they were doing anything illegal they would have been shut down years ago.

I think Dani probably has posted the most logical reason why they don't want to let their customers see what they send out to the credit bureaus.

Seems to me that I am missing the importance of what Lex or Junum or any of the other credit repair companies do or don't do or how they do it.

To quote Judge Wood who pointed out in Trinsey v. Pagliaro, such arguments may be enlightening and entertaining, but provide no basis upon which judgment might be rendered. Since we are not in court, one might be able to use such comments to reach a decision regarding the employment of those firms who use such infantile approaches to a very serious subject, but I personally think that our wrath would be more properly directed at the credit bureaus and others who resort to extrinsic fraud, certification of false information across state lines using both interstate and intrastate communications lines to do so and routinely commit various and sundry other blatantly criminal acts in their business activities.

And then they add insult to injury by claiming that they are allowed to do so under FCRA and FDCPA.

I think it's more than high time to start dragging these high-binders into the proper venues where they can be turned into proven and convicted felons.

It is a felony offense to certify false information and transmit it across state lines. It is a fraud.

It is actual, constructive and sometimes extrinsic fraud to do many of the things that the credit bureaus do on a routine basis. In my opinion that is the direction we should be working towards.

And it is not the credit bureaus that we actually need to attack for those crimes because they will be pretty successful in claiming that they are covered under FCRA and are therefore untouchable.

IRS employees try to do the same, claim that they are only acting in their official capacity and are therefore immune, but their immunity is gone if they break any law. IRS is not about to defend an employee who commits a criminal act.

And I seriously doubt that a CRA would defend it's employees who are charged with a felony act either.

Just another petty attack against the competition. Does Junum or Lexington post on message boards regarding you violating almost every section of the Credit Repair Organizations Act?
I thought you were asked not to post here? Especially after saying the following:

Quote from Bill

"I told her I would gladly pay her [Christine] for advertising space a long time ago. She didn't want any part of that. She insisted I set up an affiliate program with a tracking function so she could keep track of how many people signed up under her so she could get paid so many levels deep.

Well, I told her I wasn't going to do that because if I set up an affiliate program and pay out commissions X number of levels deep then paying all of the levels would add to the cost of what I do and I could no longer sell at a reasonable price. I told her I would pay her so much for her space if she would put a reasonable price and give me a decent spot. No, she wouldn't have no part of that and I'm not going to rip people off paying commission 10 levels deep.

The internet is so full of that kind of junk already that people hate it with a purple passion.
MLM works fine for some products that have a chance for recurring sales every month like cigarettes or health food or lots of different programs. I sell an awful lot of cigarettes every month. Most of those affiliate programs make you put up a fee to join and you have to buy a certain amount of the product every month.

What I do just isn't the kind of thing that works with MLM marketing. It would just be a rip-off.
I can see buying 3 or 4 cartons of cigarettes a month even if one does not smoke and has to give them away or trash them or whatever because the profit levels are there to support doing that.

But if Christine thinks it's going to work so well then I'd like to know how many Credit Wrenches she is willing to buy every month. "

Full text:
http://consumers.creditnet.com/stra...ouse#post105306

Bill Bauer wrote to me on 7/29/2001:

"Have I ever got something for you.

This item is something I think is going to be in great demand by those wishing to repair their own credit.

How about ALL of the federal statutes and more, all on CD, All in pdf fromat, and all completely searchable just about any way you want to search them?

All of the criminal law, all of the civil law. All right there to search
and find what you want and all on one CD???

And all for only $140.00 plus S &H

And I'll pay you 10% or $14.00 for every copy you sell on your board.

How do you like them apples?

Bill Bauer"

My response on 7/30/2001:

"Hi Bill,

didn't mean to ignore your mail, just been really busy, and got sidetracked every time I looked at your site.

Don't know if you've had a chance to read my order-credit.shtml with all the ads and my advertising income posted in the forum section. The bottom line is that the ad income doesn't even pay for the phone bill. I think about 3 people bought Carreon's credit repair manual in the last half year ... and that's only $13. Have no idea if it's worth it or not, haven't had time to look at it yet.

Anyway, if you have any way to track links, I'll be happy to join an affiliate program and add it to that "ads" page.

But I really don't "sell" anything, BayHouse is mostly a resource site.

Enjoy your lively postings,

Christine"

On 7/31/2001 Bill replied and I tried to summarize, but there's really nothing like Bill talking:

"Well, I don't have any software to track with. That takes CGI and no matter what I've tried so far I have not been able to get CGI to work at all for me. I'd love to learn how to do it, but I just can't seem to find the right "thread" to jerk on so the whole ball of string comes unraveled for me. Maybe some day.

I do enjoy posting a lot, and yes, I do get pretty "lively" sometimes. This guy mier or whatever his name is and many others get my steam up a lot, but I don't let them get to me really. I mean, I telll them and tell them how to fix their credit and it just flies right over the heads. Their eyes just seem to
glaze over. That's because when you start talking about how easy it is to scare the living daylights out of these collection agencies and creditors and the CRAs too by simply threatening them with a huge lawsuit at the right time and under the right conditions, they just don't get it. I do the whole thing or teach others how to do it. That's one of the legion of things I do is credit repair as yoiu know.

I do need a lot more business, and of course I need it as quickly as possible. And of course, I'm posting on your board as well as others for the sole purpose of getting more business. And I don't mind paying webmasters for the business I get off of their sites. It's not hard to find out where the business comes from because the customer will tell me almost every time. I'd love to get some
advertising on your board. There most likely would not be much coming off it at first because you have not been up for very long this time.

One thing I could do for you is to advertise your site for you. I do a lot of search engine submission. I keep several computers running 24-7 doing nothing but that. Submitting websites to search engines. I have a lot of websites of my own and I also do it for about 600 other companies and individuals. That' would help you get more people over on your board. Plus I'll be happy to treat you fairly and give you a commission on everyone who either buys the CD or signs up for credit repair. We all have to pay our bills somehow, and with all of what I do, mine are way way beyond just about anybody's wildest imagination.

Well, you think about ways I can start getting some business off of postings and ads on your board, and I'll treat you fairly. Once your traffic gets up to a respectable number, you will start to make money off the board.

Catch you later.
Bill"

My response on 8/2/2001:

"Just a quick note, have you looked at Clickbank.com? A lot of smaller companies use them for affiliate referrals.

Christine"

And Bill replied the same day:

"No, I haven't.
One of those companies, and I think it's clickbank.com, slows your site down so bad while it contacts them that people get tired of waiting and just go away.

Bill Bauer"

According to my computer and my memory, that's all the communications I've ever had with Bill.

Never once did I mention MLMs.

And for those not familiar with internet advertising:

Any banner you click on is tracked. They can even track you WITHOUT displaying the often very long URLs with the referrer IDs keeping track of where you came from.

I saw another one of Bill's postings at creditnet in response to somebody mentioning my services:

bbauer | 2325 posts since Apr 2001 208.191.12.182 | 10.04.2001 @ 02:46

"Yes, but WOW! that's extremely expensive.

And then she's going to tell you about debt consolidation and how it will affect your credit rating for $40 or $70 or whatever?

Bill Bauer
ceo@creditwrench.com
http://www.creditwrench.com"

Bill, I was sincere about recommending you to clients who would benefit from what I thought you're doing - and there are not many since you have NO understanding of credit, credit scoring and underwriting. For most people, paying you to remove old collections is a waste of $$$.

I had read some of the postings at creditnet, highly recommending you. Now that I read your e-mails to me again, and I saw your postings about me at creditnet, I'd say chances are that you PAID people to post good things about you. Or, at the very least, you bartered your services for their promoting you.

There are boards like creditnet where quality is NOT an issue and anyone can post just about anything and people think MORE postings are better. I have absolutely NO intention of running a forum like creditnet.

What would be the point of doing something that's already done?

I'd really like to have a site where people can find quickly the BEST answer to their question without having to wade through tons of BS.

It's very difficult and time consuming organizing a forum, moving, merging and splitting threads, editing after people accidentally post real names and emails, and, as you can see, keeping the BS out. The last thing BayHouse needs is Bill Bauer's rambling self promotion.

BayHouse is by no means what I'd like it to be. But, it's only me, me, and me again and my day has only 24 hours.

As I told Bill in my first e-mail, BayHouse is supposed to be a resource. I don't WANT 1000000 postings here, especially not BS postings like Bill's.

Bill, don't post here again. I've asked you before, and I have no idea where I get the patience to deal with you in such a friendly manner - I'm about out of patience.

Bill Bauer, do NOT post at BayHouse again!

I agree with you 100%. I really hope this board can attract more adults that openly and freely share their experiences without the BS. I am not a credit expert, and I could use all the help that I can get. Once I get some more time, I will post some of my recent credit experiences. Back to work I go.