I already knew that Fair Isaac's balance/limit ratios were screwed up since Holly's Cap One chargeoff was included, but I assumed or hoped that Fair Isaac would disregard real OLD chargeoffs.

Recently I documented that Fair Issac will do anything to artificially lower scores:

A 6 year old charge-off is still included in the B/L ratio.

In this case: It's really an incorrectly reported INSTALLMENT loan, as auto loans can NOT be revolving, the limit is reported incorrectly and Nissan refused to correct anything.

How an account effects your scores depends on so many *details.*

Have a look at the spreadsheet at http://forum.creditcourt.com/discus...es/10/1658.html

Can you follow it? Can you calculate YOUR balance/limit ratio? Is it identical to the Beacon or Empirica percentage calculated by Fair Isaac?

I'm adding a poll, and I'll really appreciate people honestly telling me what they don't understand.

If you want to improve your credit scores, you MUST be able to calculate your B/L ratio.

Please post any questions and suggestions.

I can duplicate me and wife's ratios OK and that was my vote but couldn't also vote I understood the spreadsheet.

I agree, FICO is full of crap and the system is definitely geared to fail to the consumer's disfavor.

Here's an observation on FICO stupidity, based on using the simulator at myFICO.com. We have 6 yr. old BK7. All accounts included have (in 2/03) been updated to "Included in BK".

The simulator for my TU FICO score said the recent CC paydowns I made to take me from 77% B/L to around 5% B/L will move my 670 TU FICO up to TU FICO 730-770. Great ! I'm happy about that.

HOWEVER, for my wife's TU FICO, simulator said recent paydowns to move her from 58% B/L to 5% B/L would only raise her score from 608 TU FICO to 638-678 TU FICO ! Boy, are we steamed !

After scouring her score info. and report, I realized that just one of her IIB accounts (Fleet CC) has the "Date Closed" field as "Not on Record". This TL also says "Last Report on February, 2003". It looks to me like since FICO doesn't get a closure date, it's using the last report date (when we disputed to correct to IIB) as the age date. 2nd most important factor lowering her score is "There is evidence of a late payment on your file as recent as 3 months ago....". This is BS ! Our payments pattern is SPOTLESS since BK7 discharge in 7/97 !

Senseless BS !

Not sure at this point whether to dispute yet a 3rd time with TU or now dispute with Fleet ! (2nd dispute to TU was "account closed", TU "verified", more BS !).

Hope that wasn't too far OT !

As far as the score simulator goes, I looked at it a few times last year and decided that it wasn't worth my time. Some of my clients found it to be helpful, others didn't.

I looked at paying my balances down, and it the result was a range of *current score to 30 or 40 points higher* - not useful to me.

Since I still had unlimited Equifax at the time I just put the accounts in dispute - but that also is not an accurate indicator because you then lose the impact of the entire accounts, not just the balances. Well timed balance transfers (a temporary low balance) are most accurate.

Where do you get lost on the spreadsheet?

If you get lost, the judge and jury probably won't understand it either.

And I moved the problem with your wife's late payment to http://creditforum.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1772

Sorry, I didn't word that well. I meant, since I voted the top choice, I couldn't simultaneously cast a vote that indicated "The spreadsheet makes sense". So, to be clear, the spreadsheet does make sense to me.

Oh, ok, good.

I hadn't realized that I lost the "mulitple choice" option last night, so I posted a new poll and you really should be able to check ALL that apply now.

Lots of people are READING this thread, but nobody is checking anything in the poll. I get the feeling that most people have no clue.

I decided to post a new spreadsheet for readers to simply type in their limits and balances.

Calculate YOUR balance/limit ratio

I hope that helps - please post any questions or comments and complete the poll.

Repost from another thread:

"Before I added the new Union Plus Card I just was approved for ($1000 limit) my b/l is very near 50%...probably because of the Cap One limit being $500 and I have $497 on it. :-("

It appears that your total LIMITS without the UP card are $1,000.

"I did the smart thing and transferred that balance to the UP card(less interest too 9.9 vs 23.9). Once that starts reporting (if it reports correctly) my b/l will go down to 25%."

Correct, with a new total LIMIT of $2,000 and a balance of $500 you're looking at 25%.

"I am guessing that is more accecptable or is there a "magic" percentage?"

Nothing "magic." I've you're below 30%, you're below average and doing good. But LESS is better.

"This is just for revolving accounts. Do I need to include everything?"

No, ONLY revolving open accounts AND closed revolving accounts with balances, including revolving chargeoffs.

If your B/L ratio is a factor on your TU or Equifax FAIR ISAAC score, it will tell you what percentage they calculated and it should be the same.

It's important to check the Fair Isaac scores because sometimes installment or other loans, even mortgages, are INCORRECTLY reported as revolving and included in the B/L ratio

Unfortunately, the Experian report with the FICO does not include those specifics.

Christine wrote:
It appears that your total LIMITS without the UP card are $1,000.


Total Limits being the combined credit limit of all my revolving cards? If so, Currently, w/o UP the amunt would be $1350...I have one revolving charge card that is old and in collections (mobil) the balance is zero on that though.

Why is that only the revolving type accounts move the score so well? I have had auto loans for last the five years that I have never missed a payment on and mortgages that have never been late in three years...would I expect my score to drop if I had no revolving accounts? Finally, what if I had say four more cards with combined Limit of $5000, would that help my scoring any?

"I have one revolving charge card that is old and in collections (mobil) the balance is zero on that though."

It doesn't count because the balance is zero AND it is closed.

The auto (installment) loans definitely HELP your scores, but you always need to have revolving accounts too. That's just what scores want to see, in part to make sure you don't have any habits that would cause you to use all your available credit when you don't have the cash to pay it back. You can't charge drinks to your car loan on a Friday night at the bar.

And yes, more cards would help, although in the short term the inquiry and the "new" account will lower your scores for a few months.

I recommend about 3 to 4 credit cards and a couple charge cards like Target, but obviously only for people who are able to handle the associated paper work.

The higher the limits, the lower your B/L ratio, provided you don't charge the cards up.

Hi,


I am new.

I tried the spreadsheet and my Actual B/l is 94

I was not sure what to do with Proposed B/L ( sorry I am new)

My credit expert score is 665
I couldnt find th B/L

the score simulator (creditepert.com)is showing 780
and if my credit history would be 3 yrs old it would be 810,

and if I get more loans ( student loans16k right now) about 30 it will go up to 820.

does not make sense

anyone know how to get B/L from credtexpert score?

The "proposed" b/l ratio is to see how you can LOWER it, or what will happen if you increase your balance, or limits.

You need to read Credit Scoring Basics and especially Snake oil scores: CreditXpert and bureau scores

My CreditXpert score was over 700, Fair Isaac Experian 659, and on the same day. And that's why I'm suing the sellers of the snake oil scores.

You only find balance/limit ratios on Fair Isaac Beacon and Empirica scores, and only when they are a factor, either positive or negative.

And disregard those score simulators, it's all snake oil. The Fair Isaac simulators can be right sometimes, but often are way off. It's all sales gimmicks.

Thanks Christine,

so my Creditexpert score 665 is just worthless

I am planning to apply for a checking account, and the AMEX blue cash.

Anyone can suggest how this will affect my score?

My b/l according to the spreadsheet is 94%

I have a student loan 16k and a low limit CC $0 balance, no derogatory, 2 years of history. two -1 year old inquiries

thanks

The new inquiries will most likely lower your scores. I wouldn't apply for a credit card until you paid down your existing accounts or you got limit increases, but the bank account shouldn't be a problem.

Did you include the student loan in your B/L ratio calculations?

Christine,
I found this today and thought it might help those of us who never understood how to run the numbers.

BTW, we got our loan-6.9 (we can live with it) and yes I am looking for an attorney to sue Bank One / First USA. I have all the documentation. I can be a very formidable B#$@$ when in the mood and I am in the mood. Lia

Glad to see you got your loan.

And as far as suing goes, post a summary at CreditCourt http://forum.creditcourt.com/discus...2572/2572.html, along with your state.

Attorneys do read there, but you're probably better off suing yourself. Randy already got his $3K settlement offer: http://firstusa-credit-suit.us/

Update:

Despite over 2 years of litigation, Capital One won't report the limits at all.

Target claims that it reports the limits, also claims that there's no law requiring it to report the limits, claims that the Feds issued an Advisory Letter stating they don't have to report the limits -- and my own Equifax doesn't have the Target store card limit and I just saw several client reports without limits on Equifax. The Target Visa reports ok and I just can't understand why Target won't report the limits for the store card with Equifax.

Target filed a motion for summary judgment, their reply to my objection is due 10/24/05 - we'll see what the judge says.

My open letter to the FFIEC:

My request for a NEW Advisory Letter specifically stating that the limits have to be reported has been mostly ignored. I got a call from an FDIC lawyer telling me that I need to contact each department head, not the individuals, more BS.

The good news:

Apparently HELOCs are now often excluded from the B/L ratio, along with charged off balances.

The bottom line:

You need to calculate YOUR ratio to determine which accounts are included in Fair Isaac's calculations.