Dear Christine,

I have seen your letters to household and found myself in a similar situation with them regarding unauthorized inquiries. I've even used the faxaway that I signed up for earlier this week.

Household finance had 8 A/R and Household credit (Orchard) had 7 A/R - bk was discharged 7/02 and these credit report pulls were after that.

A family member told me they called for me today and left a number for me to call. I do not plan to call.

In my letter I told them to please reply by fax and also I put my address (which I'm sure they have).

I wasn't expecting them to call though. What should I do? I put a deadline date (for permissable purpose explanation) of May 16th. I faxed on May 6th. It basically was the exact same set up as your letter (if you are the same Christine I've seen who has been dealing with Household).

The 2 faxes I sent on Tuesday (just yesterday) are the first communication I've made about the inquires. Should they be calling?

I bet they even pulled another report seeing that they called me and I didn't give them the number. So they must have looked at the account - and I bet they made an inquiry.

Since I read your letter, I saw that they said the divisions were different so I faxed one to Household Finance and one to Household Credit. It is Household Credit (orchard) that has called today.

2) Another question - How often should I get the credit reports? I recently got all 3. I know there will be more unauthorized inquires. The last ones were in March - on experian and on equifax.

Thanks,

lakepark

I moved your posting to its own thread.

Are you maybe talking about my letter to Wells Fargo?

It sure sounds to me like you have an excellect case.

I would try to avoid speaking with them.

After-discharge is the most appropriate time to subscribe to monitoring if you're serious about rebuilding. I don't like to see people spend the money on the monitoring services, but it can cost you a lot more if you don't.

Get the free trial if you didn't already get those. If you have your Experian, you can look up the report at their site for 90 days. Follow the links to dispute - all the info is there, but you can't get the printable format. It's good enough for most purposes to print specific accounts and of course the inquiries.

http://www.bayhouse.com/order-credit.shtml

How is the Orchard card reported? Does is show as discharged? Zero balance?

Thanks Christine,

I think that I mixed you up with a person that you were speaking with. At the end of one of his/her posts, he/she said "Sincerely, thanks for the help Christine" and I got confused (because of the "sincerely") and thought it was Christine that was signing it. Now I see that this person "Creditless" was thanking you.


I also did read your Wells Fargo information and that was also helpful.

Here is what I read from on another credit board that I had thought was you. But it might actually be a conversation this person had with you. Together with the Wells Fargo info, I put together similar letters to Household Finance and Household Credit.



This again is some really good info I used:



___________________________________


Household Mortgage

I filed bankruptcy on 3/2000 - discharged 7/2000. I discharged Household and they continued to try to collect until 10/2001 when I said I would sue them. Well anyway, I went to apply for a home loan last month. Household is still showing a balance due on one report. Showing up lates until 10/2001 on others. I have about 15 unauthorized A/R viewings of my credit report by household mortgage, household finance, etc. As a matter of fact they viewed it just yesturday? I have sent disputes to the big 3 and they have verified some of this. Who should I sue first? Should I treat all of Household's company's as one or sue seperate? Any help would be great.


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Posted by Christine on 06-21-2002 09:49 PM:

Wasn't the Household mortgage secured by the property? Did they get the property and tried to collect a defiency?


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Posted by creditless on 06-21-2002 10:02 PM:

They got the property and forclosed on it 3 months after my bankruptcy. I disputed the forclosure and got it off of my reports.
They still continue to call and ask for money. Eveytime I told them that it was discharged in bankruptcy they act surprised and would have someone else call back a week or two later. I now wish I would have documented when they called.


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Posted by Christine on 06-24-2002 11:54 PM:

It's really great to have the foreclosure deleted. Aside from the impact on scores, mortgage lenders HATE foreclosures.

We've had some e-mail about Household and hopefully we'll have some updates on that soon.


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Posted by creditless on 07-21-2002 05:04 AM:
My letter to household

Household
Legal Department
June 24, 2002

To Whom It May Concern:

1) You obtained my credit reports without a permissible purpose:

a) Equifax credit report,
• Household Finance viewed my report on 6/11/2002, 3/11/2002, 10/12/2001, 07/26/2001

• Household Mortgage viewed my report on 5/22/2002, 4/26/2002, 11/13/2001, 10/17/2001

• Household Bank viewed my report on 3/21/2002, 2/25/2002, 1/16/2002, 12/18/2001, 10/12/2001

b) TransUnion report,
• Household financial viewed my report on 1/26/2001 and 9/20/2000.

c) Experian report,
• Orchard Bank viewed my report on 2/24/2002, 1/16/2002, 11/20/2001, 9/27/2001, 8/10/2001, 7/10/2001, 6/6/2001, 4/16/2001

From the FCRA § 616. Civil liability for willful noncompliance [15 U.S.C. § 1681n]

"(b) Civil liability for knowing noncompliance. Any person who obtains a consumer report from a consumer reporting agency under false pretenses or knowingly without a permissible purpose shall be liable to the consumer reporting agency for actual damages sustained by the consumer reporting agency or $1,000, whichever is greater."

From the 1998 FTC opinion letter Greenblatt at http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/greenblt.htm:

"Any person who procures a consumer report under false pretenses, or knowingly without a permissible purpose, is liable for $1000 or actual damages (whichever is greater) to both the consumer and to the consumer reporting agency from which the report is procured."

Please send payment of $23,000. $1,000 per violation.

1) You are reporting Household Mortgage account XXXXXXX INCORRECTLY on my 6/24/2002 Experian credit report:

a) You have re-aged this account in violation of the FCRA.

b) You are reporting a Ch. 7, 11, or 12 bankruptcy 9/6/2000 to 1/07/2002. Not only is it not appropriate for you to report any bankruptcy, but it is not factual.

c) You are reporting “Past DUE 180 DAYS”

d) You are listing a 30days , 90days, 120days, 150days, 180days late after I had filed bankruptcy.

e) You made approximately 7-10 calls ever couple weeks trying to collect this account in direct violation of my Bankruptcy discharge Injunction.

2) You are reporting Household Mortgage account XXXXXXX INCORRECTLY on my 6/24/2002 Experian credit report:

a) You are reporting a Ch. 7, 11, or 12 bankruptcy 5/05/2000 to 5/1/2002. Not only is it not appropriate for you to report any bankruptcy, but it is not factual.

b) You made approximately 7-10 calls ever couple weeks trying to collect this account in direct violation of my Bankruptcy discharge Injunction.

3) You are reporting Beneficial account XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX INCORRECTLY on my 6/24/2002 Experian credit report:

a) You have re-aged this account in violation of the FCRA.

b) You are reporting a Ch. 7, 11, or 12 bankruptcy 3/30/2000 to 10/23/2000. Not only is it not appropriate for you to report any bankruptcy, but it is not factual.

5) I have repeatedly disputed these errors with no resolve. I faxed a compliant to Household on 6/11/2002 and you answered by pulling another Equifax report without permissible purpose.

SETTLEMENT OFFER:
This offer expires on 7/10/2002:
a) A check for $23,000 for violation of FCRA
b) Deletion all 3 of these accounts from TransUnion, Equifax, and Experian.

Sincerely,

Thanks for the help Christine.


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Posted by creditless on 07-21-2002 05:24 AM:
Household's reply

Household
Dear Customer:

Thank you for your recent letter regarding the above referenced account.

You disputed the way the above account was reporting, however, you never advised us what is incorrect. We were notified the account was included in your Chapter 7 Bankruptcy, case # XXXXXXXX. If this is incorrect, please clarify what is reporting in error. Did you not file bankruptcy or was it reaffirmed? Your letter is not specific. Please clarify and send your response to:

HFC/Beneficial
PO Box 1547
Chesapeake, VA 23320

If we are reporting your account incorrect, we would like to correct it as soon as possible. Again, please specify what you believe is incorrect. Your letter also states you have disputed these items with the credit bureaus. Per our records, we have not received a dispute on your account.

We have forwarded copies of your letter to Household Bank and Household Mortgage. They will review your letter as it pertains to their accounts.

Please feel free to contact your local office at (XXX) XXX-XXXX if you have any further questions.

Sincerely,

Household Finance Corporation / Beneficial Finance
Research Department


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Posted by creditless on 07-21-2002 05:37 AM:
My responce to households letter

Household
Legal Department
July 5, 2002

To Whom It May Concern:

Thank you for the reply letter on 6/26/2002

1) First I will start by replying to your questions.

a) You asked, “You disputed the way the above account was reporting, however, you never advised us what is incorrect?”

Reply- Do you NOT know what you are reporting? If you knew what you were reporting you would know that I filed a chapter 7 not a chapter 11 or 12.

b) You stated,” We were notified the account was included in your Chapter 7 Bankruptcy, case # XXXXXX. If this is incorrect, please clarify what is reporting in error?”

Reply- If you were notified why did you continue collections until 10/2001 in violation of my discharge injunction when my discharge clearly stated 3/2000 – 7/2000?

Why are you still reporting my bankruptcy discharge date as 10/2000?

Why have you re-aged my discharge 3 months in clear violation of the FCRA Section 611?

You are reporting this account in violation of the US Bankruptcy code. The US Supreme Court:

"One of the primary purposes of the Bankruptcy Act is to give debtors a new opportunity in life and a clear field for future effort, unhampered by the pressure and discouragement of preexisting debt."

Your reporting of this preexisting debt has destroyed this "clear field for future effort", my damages include excessive interest rates and even declines. Even if the account was reported correctly, it would still lower my credit scores.

Why do you ignore this Supreme Court decision?


c) You stated, “Your letter also states you have disputed these items with the credit bureaus. Per our records, we have not received a dispute on your account.”

Reply- Thank you for this bit of information it will help me with my current suit with Experian who claims you verified these accounts 2 times in the last 2 months.

d) You stated, “We have forwarded copies of your letter to Household Bank and Household Mortgage. They will review your letter as it pertains to their accounts.”

Reply- I will assume from this statement you would like me to treat Household Finance, Bank, and Mortgage as separate businesses.
Why haven’t they replied?

e) You stated,” Please feel free to contact your local office at (XXX) XXX-XXXX if you have further questions.”

Reply- I have contacted your local office and they could not help me.

2) Now that I have answered your questions please answer mine.

a) Why have you not addressed my questions concerning your permissible purpose in obtaining my credit file?

Household finance has pulled my report
-Equifax on 6/11/2002, 3/11/2002, 10/12/2001, 7/26/2001 these accounts are listed on Equifax with permissible purpose as “AR” Account Review.
-TransUnion on 1/26/2001 and 9/20/2002.

b) As I have not had an account with you sense 3/2000 “Bankruptcy Discharge” AGAIN what was your permissible purpose?

c) Why have you violated my rights again? You pulled my Experian report again on the day you wrote this letter. (6/26/2002) A dispute about what is on my report is NOT permissible purpose. That’s 8 accounts of Civil liability for willful noncompliance.

From the FCRA § 616. Civil liability for willful noncompliance [15 U.S.C. § 1681n]

"(b) Civil liability for knowing noncompliance. Any person who obtains a consumer report from a consumer reporting agency under false pretenses or knowingly without a permissible purpose shall be liable to the consumer reporting agency for actual damages sustained by the consumer reporting agency or $1,000, whichever is greater."

From the 1998 FTC opinion letter Greenblatt at http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fcra/greenblt.htm:

"Any person who procures a consumer report under false pretenses, or knowingly without a permissible purpose, is liable for $1000 or actual damages (whichever is greater) to both the consumer and to the consumer reporting agency from which the report is procured."


d) Why have you failed to notify the credit bureaus of this dispute in clear violation of Section 623 of the FCRA Notice of dispute?

Please send payment of $10,000.00 for violations.
$1,000 per FCRA violation + $1,000 for violation of my discharge injunction.

If I have to take this to Federal court I will ask for actual damages, court cost, attorney fees and punitive damages. I have been denied a $100,000.00 mortgage because of your reporting.

SETTLEMENT OFFER:
This offer expires on 7/11/2002:

a) A check for $10,000 for your violations of FCRA.
b) Deletion of Beneficial account XXXXXXX from all reporting agencies including TransUnion, Equifax, and Experian.
c) Deletion of inquiries from my credit reports made by Household Finance.

Sincerely,

This settlement offer was for Beneficial only.

Again thanks for the help Christine.


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Posted by creditless on 07-22-2002 03:23 PM:

By the way here are the companies household owns and customer service numbers.

Customer Service Contacts

Household Business Customer Service

Auto Finance (800) 418-1888 www.householdauto.com

Beneficial (800) 371-6441 www.beneficial.com

Decision One Mortgage (704) 887-2700 www.d1online.com

Household Bank Card (800) 771-7339 www.hbcard.com

Household Direct (800) 547-8776 www.householdloan.com

Household Finance (HFC) (800) 340-7866

Insurance Services (800) 370-6346 www.insurehi.com

Mortgage Services (800) 333-7023 www.hfsonline.com


Orchard Bank Card (503) 245-9280 www.orchardbank.com


Express Refund Services (800) 524-0628 www.householdral.com

Household will more then likely ignore whatever you write--forget phoning. IF you do get to speak to someone and they give you info, the next time you call you will be told no one by that name works here, the info is incorrect etc. etc.

They also have an answer to any and all questions--whether the answers are true or not is a different story.

When we were disputing their accounts on our credit reports, the agencies deleted their accounts due to lack of cooperation from Household, whether on my husband's or my own report.

I could tell you lots and lots about the company but if you really want to read more, try www.householdwatch.net and be prepared to be outraged. Although we did not have a regular mortgage with them, they gave us something called a "personal home loan" that was secured by our home. Long story short--we ended up in bankruptcy less then 1 1/2 years after taking out the loan and losing our home. And we are only one of countless cases.

Don't back down, and don't give up. Never again will we be "lambs to the slaughter". They will try and see how long your patience holds out, hoping that you will eventually "go away".

Christine,

Seems like you do a good job of telling them what they have done wrong, but perhaps you need to specify clearly how you would like the account reported. Just a suggestion.

Additionally I find that if I send a copy of the complaint I intend to file with the court on the deadline provided gets them moving swiftly. I explain that there will be no delay beyond the deadline I've imposed (usually ten days from receipt) for any reason. I normally receive letters from their attorney via FedEx asking to talk. I reply that the only communication required is for them to inform me that they have complied with my demands. Other than that a judge will make the decision on who's right.

Just my two cents. You do a great job here!

" I reply that the only communication required is for them to inform me that they have complied with my demands."

That's why most creditors offer correction for dismissal and no money.

That's all that you can really do. If you file on them and they walk into court explaining that they corrected their error upon notification nearly every judge in this country will dismiss. They don't understand the FCRA or the FDCPA.

I have filed my share of these cases and prevail nearly 100% of the time. By prevailing I mean that the information is removed or modified per my request. To get $1000 bucks per hit is unrealistic... it does happen now and then, but that's it. We are talking about civil law and absolutes do not apply as they do in criminal law.

You mention that Household kept pulling your file after discharge. In our case, they kept pulling hard inquiries after our Chap. 13 plan confirmation in 5/02, were notified of our conversion to BK 7 in 2/03 and we just received discharge 4/29/03--no inquiries yet from them. We are waiting....

Meanwhile, they kept bombarding us with their credit card applications. We never solicited same as we will never deal with this company again.

I hate to ask here but nobody seems to respond on the other boards, and you have experience with the company. I'm posting the hard inquiries found on my husband's Experian report.

04/22/2003 AR-Household Finance Corp
03/21/2003 AR-Household Finance Corp
03/13/2003 AR-Household Finance Corp
02/26/2003 PRM-Household Bank
01/28/2003 AR-Household Finance Corp
01/16/2003 PRM-Household Bank
12/30/2002 AR-Household Finance Corp
11/18/2002 AR-Household Finance Corp
10/23/2002 AR-Household Finance Corp
09/24/2002 AR-Household Finance Corp
09/17/2002 PRM-Household Bank
08/15/2002 AR-Household Finance Corp
07/17/2002 AR-Household Finance Corp
06/19/2002 AR-Household Finance Corp
11/19/2001 Household Finance Corp

Surely something is amiss here. Most are hard inquiries. We had several accounts with them, but does this give them the right to pull all these, especially since both Chap. 13 and Chap. 7 is involved?

There is nothing on mine. But then, my income is so low and I am disabled, which makes me a nobody in any lender's eyes (and other people as well).

Thank you for any ideas etc.

*Unfortunately* - they're all legit.

"we just received discharge 4/29/03" - AFTER the discharge they can no longer pull the credit, but until then, they're ok.

Also, they're not "hard" inquiries except for probably the 11/19/01 inquiry.

A/R = account review = soft inquiry

PRM = promotional = soft inquiry

It's almost funny that they're running promos. Now that you got your discharge, they can no longer legally run A/Rs since the debt was discharged.

Cismo wrote:

"That's all that you can really do. If you file on them and they walk into court explaining that they corrected their error upon notification nearly every judge in this country will dismiss. They don't understand the FCRA or the FDCPA."

Did you file complaints with the judicial committee?

"I have filed my share of these cases and prevail nearly 100% of the time. By prevailing I mean that the information is removed or modified per my request. To get $1000 bucks per hit is unrealistic... it does happen now and then, but that's it. We are talking about civil law and absolutes do not apply as they do in criminal law."

I must not have seen this posting. It's totally NOT true. I know of at least *30* people who got their checks for inquiries since I first got my check from Wells Fargo in 12/01.

The only thing that's unrealistic is NOT getting your check!

Wells Fargo: SETTLED for $1,000 + deletion of UNAUTHORIZED inquiry

However, because so many consumers settle for deletion or correction, you can't blame the creditors for EXPECTING that.

Everybody who INSISTS on compensation and especially those who PUBLICIZE their success provide a great service to ALL consumers, as corporations will only change their business practices if they have to PAY for their mistakes.

Hi Christine,

I got a reply from Household via postal mail and wanted to post what this guy wrote back.

May 30, 2003

my name
my address

Re: Credit Bureau Inquiries

Dear (name)

Thank you for contacting Household regarding your credit bureau file. I contacted Equifax who advised me that no one from Household obtained your credit bureau file on the dates you indicated. These inquiries are called Account reviews (AR) and are for the purpose of reviewing our existing customers' demographics. You only see these, other companies that pull your file do not see these types of inquiries nor do they affect your credit score.

I have sent a note to our business analysis department requesting that they remove you from future account reviews. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. You may call me at 800.... extension... if you have any question or concerns.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


What do you think about that Christine? How would you reply?

Is he trying to say that its legal?


My discharge was 7/02 and all of the A/Rs I listed in my initial faxes to them were after the discharge. It seems that he's saying because they are A/Rs they don't matter.

That's what they're saying, very clever!

"These inquiries are called Account reviews (AR) and are for the purpose of reviewing our existing customers' demographics. "

The FCRA does NOT exempt account reviews and what they wrote is a total lie. Demographics has NOTHING to do with A/Rs, they got your credit reports.

I would simply file a federal complaint for $1,000 for each inquiry after the discharge.

But it would be better if you had an attorney, you might want to try some at NACA.net.

Hi Christine,

Thanks for the reply. I recently hired a lawyer to handle the Household inquiries. I received a letter from another division of Household today and wanted to post what they replied. This is Household Finance - the one I had a loan with which was discharged 7/02. The other letter I received that I posted a few days ago was from Household Credit I believe. I read somewhere (when someone was dealing with the same thing) that they consider themselves all separate.

But anyway, here is what they replied:

----------------------------------

June 13, 2003

My name
My address

RE: Inquiry

Dear Customer:

Thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the above referenced account. (Note: they didn't reference any account in this letter)

We are unable to review the inquiries on your credit files in this department, therefore we need a copy of your credit bureau. These could be inquiries from our marketing department and you can contact them at 1-888.......

Please feel free to contact us if you have any further questions.

Sincerely,

Household Finance Corporation/Beneficial Finance
Research Department


----------------------------------------


I don't get it. Are they playing games here? It seems like they are saying "well it's probably the other department's fault". They don't know when they pull people's reports to do their account reviews? Maybe more people should be taking them to court then. My bankruptcy was discharged last year and they are still reviewing my report.

If I had to deal with them alone it would be almost impossible. They wouldn't listen to me.

Its puzzles me how they also have 2 different divisions (Household Finance and Household Credit Services-Orchard) pulling my report yet I only had an account with Household Finance that was discharged in bk last year. I have no idea how Orchard Bank (Household Credit) is pulling my account at all - yet they are still making inquires. (the last one in May as I saw yesterday) In the past I did have permissible pulls on my experian report by "HFC" (before bankruptcy) since I had the loan. But now I have all these inquires by Orchard but not by HFC (on Experian). ?? I don't get it.


Household "Finance" is still pulling my report every month on the Equifax file though.

Do they really know what they are doing? I know they should know but I can't tell if they are instructed to play dumb when consumers write them.

Obviously they don't expect consumers to actually send in reports, and it's their way of telling you to go away.

The problem with Experian is that they do NOT disclose the purpose of inquiries, such as promos. And that's one of the reasons why I'm suing them.

Orchard targets people with bankruptcies, so they could well be marketing.

They have all these different corporations to confuse people.

Oh, and that reminds me, I ought to call Household since they haven't responded at all to my Request for Waiver of Service.

I'm glad you got an attorney, and appreciate the update. I think with Experian inquiries, I would ask THEM what the purpose was.

As I understand it, Orchard Bank is really Household under another name. This lender likes to operate under various names--HFC, HRS etc. Which is why I believe that a consumer group is trying to get their dealings listed as a RICO case.

To all concerned: Household will (allegedly--there's that fun word again) tell you anything to see if you will just "go away". They will lose files, their computer system is down and/or erased data, account info was lost when converting from microfiche to computer, oh, we didn't know you filed BK--it goes on and on and on.

You were very smart to get an attorney. It sickens me to see all the AR inquiries from Household on my hubby's credit report. Even though we had accounts with them, why in heaven's name would they keep pulling his record after they were informed by our attorney that we filed BK. Just to get our goat, that's all.

Please keep me posted. We have REAL issues with them, including false info on their "computer generated" application etc.

FYI: Orchard was purchased by Household a couple years ago.

Lakepark,
There is no other company that can come up with so many excuses as Household does-lost the file, it doesn't exist, we moved from one building to another and files were lost, many accounts were never copied to our computer when we converted from microfiche to a computerized system, this customer had made up a fraudulent "paid in full" statement (yes, it's true! They are accusing a woman of having done that, and froze her checking account!).

So their pulling your credit report like crazy, too. Up to date of discharge (and we are watching carefully what they are up to) they had looked at my hubby's report for absolutely no reason because they knew we had filed bankruptcy.

Like so many consumers, you are experiencing what it is like to deal with this company. Sadly people don't know when they get a credit card or installment financing that it is actually provided by Household. And when their credit takes a hit, it is only then they find out who the culprit is. This company counts on consumer lack of knowledge. Like the quote at the top of the page, I will not keep silent about evil.

Christine, just packing up and heading away from this madness is sounding better all the time. The world of credit and credit reporting has gone insane. Again, I must say I admire your persistence. You give me the courage to continue against those who have destroyed our credit and taken our home. Never again will they drive me to the brink of suicide. As someone once said "Anger can be good for the heart".

To me the only acceptable way of "giving up" is leaving the country.

I realize that's not an option for most people, but I feel that when I find that my efforts are futile, at the very least I'm not going to support this system with my tax dollar. And it's not income tax I'm concerned with, it's every time I go to the store and buy anything and I am charged sales tax.

It's not only credit reporting that concerns me, here's a long thread about all kinds of things going on right now:

MARC-ALL A MUST READ 4-2003 CRA'S identity theft INITIATIVE