Getting "included in bankruptcy" accounts deleted

I've been reading the posts regarding "included in bankruptcy" on credit reports. Has it been determined whether or not they can/should be removed? I only have 5 derogs on my Experian report, all listing "included in bankruptcy" but no bankruptcy listed. My TU report has 4 derogs; the bankruptcy and 3 "included in bankruptcy" items. Exquifax has 5 derogs; the bankruptcy, a bogus satisfied judgement that is being removed, and 3 "included in bankruptcy" listings. I will be trying to get a mortgage in the very near future and would like to have the best chance of getting a decent rate.

Yes, the "included in bk" accounts hurt your score. Most people will tell you that these accounts are unrated and have no effect. That is not true.

My goal has been to delete those "included in bk" accounts one by one. When they are all gone, dispute the bk itself. When I first started this, my score was in the low 400s. With the BK still reporting and less than 1/3 of the original "included in bk" accounts, my score is in the 660's. What does that tell you? If these accounts are unrated, I would still be in the 400's because nothing has changed but the passage of about 7 months.

Get as much of the reference to the BK as you can off of your report. It will help.

The question is how?

I've split this thread from the inquiries topic, this is really important. Quite a few people say that it violates the discharge order. I just haven't heard a judge say that.

I agree. But I don't know how to argue it in court, and that WILL be part of my suit.

I have YET to find any case about that.

Proving that these accounts lower your scores is real easy when you can dispute online and get your scores without them.

So I'm done with that part.

Part two is convincing the judge that it isn't right and that he needs to order the bureaus to delete ALL those accounts - not just mine.

My biggest problem now is that Experian has verified these accounts and will not allow me to redispute them. How do I go about getting them off now. I have continued to try with TU and Equifax, but I am not having much luck getting them removed. I finally did get the judgement removed.

How do I go about getting them off now.

You can keep on spam disputing the bureaus, send specific disputes, dispute with the creditors, or file a law suit.

And of course, always look for violations to use against creditors and CRAs.

Since I'm not that familiar with the specifics of what is and isn't a violation, I would be happy just to get them removed. Thanks for all of the info. I will hopefully have my scores in the mid to high 600's by the end of July so that I can get a better rate on my mortgage. I stand at a 602 average right now with a couple of items coming off shortly.

Look in the Legal & Reference section, there are numerous dispute letters with many violations explained as well as the code sections.

And don't forget that there are many more factors to credit scores than derogatory accounts.

I have realized that there are many thing that effect the scores. Luckily, I have almost 20 years of good credit. Unfortunately, I listened to a lawyer who recommended the bankruptcy. Most of my balances are low and are payed off regularly. I have established several trade lines since the bankruptcy and reaffirmed a couple through it. I have no lates anywhere on my reports and always pay more than the minimums. I should have worked out a deal with the creditors rather than file. I wasn't late on any at the time, I just had more than I though I could handle. Now I am paying for it. Once I get some of these items removed, I should easily be in the mid to high 600's. I'll read the legal section and see if there are any things I can use. Thanks.

Creditors aren't very good at working things out - so don't feel bad about filing. You can look at several reports here from readers with MUCH lower scores than yours, they PAID and SETTLED, and their credit is ruined.

It sounds like you're on your way to a great score, just give it a little time.

Christine,
I'm on vacation but couldn't resist taking a peek in the forum when my wife wasn't looking. She says I am obsessed with my credit:D

If a Bankruptcy discharge bars a collector from collecting couldn't you use this FTC opinion letter to prove thay are in violation of the discharge injunction?

CASS says in this opinion letter.

"Although the FDCPA is unclear on this point, we believe the reality is that debt collectors use the reporting mechanism as a tool to persuade consumers to pay, just like dunning letters and telephone calls"

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters/cass.htm

Creditless, yes, I think that's a very good reference. But it's not Cass who wrote the opinion, it's John F. LeFevre, Attorney for the FTC. They name the letters after the people who request the opinions. Of course it's not law, but definitely something to be used.

I've posted some of your links, thanks! I found that Supreme Court quote about the fresh start, and I think if we can find a few more references such as FTC opinion letters and maybe case law, one could make a compelling argument for the deletion of all discharged accounts.

Your wife is right, you're obsessed, take a break - and enjoy your VACATION! :)

Four years after my bankruptcy discharge, I finally decided to request credit reports for myself and my husband. I've received 2 so far and could kick myself for not checking this out sooner.

I cannot believe the mistakes - sorry but I am going to call it what it is - FRAUD!!!!

This is frightening to say the least. Anyway......

One item (and believe me the reports are riddled with inaccuracies) which is blatantly erroneous is an account I had for an auto loan which I had listed on Sche D of my bankruptcy along with my home. This means I chose not to include it in the accounts to be discharged listed on Sche F of my bankruptcy file. I paid the debt in full, on time, as agreed and it shows up on our credit reports as "Included in Bankruptcy", discharged through Bankruptcy.

I just called the creditor, which switched from Nationsbank to Bank of America and talked to some moron who tried to tell me that the inaccuracy is completely acceptable. Didn't spend much time with her, asked for her supervisor. They acknowledge my bankruptcy but have no record of the account!!! I am furious. She tried to pass the buck back to the CRA but I stopped her cold and said, "unacceptable". Got her working on it. Guess if they can't proove anything to the contrary than the CRA's will just have to correct it at my request. I want the account to stay on our reports because it is a Paid As Agree/Never Late. Any replies?

Thanks.

I recently sent my request for verification to Experian re: the ch7 incl in bk accts. All of them had incorrect dates of 2001 rather than mine in 99. Since so much of their score calculation is determined by recent dates I decided that I should shot gun the attack letter for its inaccuracies and my EXP has been stuck at 588 without moving in almost 3 years. I think I may be on to something about the dates having a major impact--if anyone else has some info please write about it. Now if I could just figure out how to go after TU and EQ for the few remaining ones on their reports.

I found numerous "recent date" errors on mine and my husband's CR. Specifically with EXPERIAN.

Not only do they error in showing my "discharged" accounts as "charge offs" or "write offs" with a delinquent balance they add insult to injury by attaching "recent" dates of 2001, 2002 to these accounts. This is extremely misleading because the more recent the date of a "discharge" the greater the damage to our credit rating.

Who works at this CRA's????? Quess the work-pool must be pretty shallow!!!

I got my letter from Experian today refusing to investigate the bankruptcy dates as listed for the accounts. Lawsuit time or isn't it worth it? You would think the morons could put in correct dates.

Whspers just SETTLED her suit against Experian - she's happy with the settlement too.

I highly recommend you read and print her complaint - I just printed and saved all the scans and transcripts of everything she's got there.

http://proselitigant.net/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=12&page_id=16

Experian ignored her requests for reinvestigation of a re-aged account. She has good documentation of her disputes - and now Experian is writing the check, and I'm sure the account in question is deleted for good.

BTW, TU deleted all of MY remaining discharged accounts - have no idea why. Definitely NOT because of my dispute, because I didn't dispute.

Sue, people, sue!

Originally posted by TxIs65
One item (and believe me the reports are riddled with inaccuracies) which is blatantly erroneous is an account I had for an auto loan which I had listed on Sche D of my bankruptcy along with my home. This means I chose not to include it in the accounts to be discharged listed on Sche F of my bankruptcy file. I paid the debt in full, on time, as agreed and it shows up on our credit reports as "Included in Bankruptcy", discharged through Bankruptcy.



Did you sign a reaffirmation agreement with the creditor? This would have had to have been signed by both the creditor and yourself and filed with the court. Without the reaffirmation agreement, even though your schedules state that you want to reaffirm the debt and even though you made all payments as agreed and paid off the debt, it would still be an included in bankruptcy account because the creditor would have had no recourse had you stopped paying...except for repossessing the car. Any deficiency would have been covered under the bankruptcy so they could not have come after you for that.

L

Just like the fact that an account has been charged off by a creditor does not mean that you don't owe the debt anymore, it's my opinion that anything other than the actual payment history is totally irrelevant to credit reporting.

I did NOT reaffirm my mortgage, I paid it on time, and I ALMOST sued to have it reported as such.

I'd like to see a JUDGE tell me that because I was the idiot who paid on time month after month, I now lose about 50+ points because my mortgage is reported as "included."

I don't think so! I WOULD sue in a second if ANY loan was reported as included when in fact I paid it. The FCRA has a provision about accurate and complete reporting.

Credit reporting is NOT about "would have" and "could have", it's about whether you paid your bills on time.

BTW, on any purchase money, owner occupied, 1 - 4 unit mortgage the ONLY recourse is foreclosure, you're never personally liable. That has no effect on your credit because it has nothing to do with your payment history.

I am having a similar problem with one of my accounts. I continued to pay it after signing a reaffirmation agreement. They stopped reporting it from the date of my filing. Everything after that has gone unreported. How do I get this corrected? When I attempted to dispute it, they updated it to late 30 as of 5-2001. I filed for the bankruptcy on 4-2001. Several of the accounts are reporting lates that occured after the filing date. Is this legal?

The reaffirmation is the problem - they can continue to report it as late, IF you were late.

For accounts you didn't reaffirm, my opinion is they can NOT report any lates after the filing and I think everybody would agree not after the discharge.

Despite my getting a letter saying they weren't investigating, Experian did process the request. But now the idiots just deleted the included in bankruptcy line and list the accounts as chargeoffs with totally incorrect dates in 2001 and 2002. I am completely overwhelmed with what they have done. It will take me months to get them straightened out if ever. I am at a loss at what to do other than to take a couple of weeks and regroup for battle. I can only imagine what my score is. there goes the mortgage application:(

Well, there's always the law suit!

I finally started to work on MY complaint last night. I'll be posting a rough draft at CreditCourt - but I'm still working on finding the RIGHT corporations to sue, it's not easy with 14 or 15 defendants.

Experian re-aged the discharge date on 2 of my discharged accounts.

And I AM looking for documentation from others to use as evidence in court. Experian will no doubt claim that this is a bona fide error and only happened to me.

I'll go thru it tomorrow ugly error by ugly error. Now it looks like I have charge offs that occurred recently and I haven't been late on anything for 3 years. They have just toasted me for getting a mortgage.

The only reason that I was late was I was waiting for the reaffirmation agreement to be completed and returned. My lawyer stated that I souldn't pay on it until I had the completed agreement. After it was returned, I continued my payments. I really don't have a problem with them reporting it as 30 days on 5/2001, but they haven't reported anything that occured after then. The problem is the latest update to my account is 30 days late as of 5/2001 even though I have continued to pay on time since then. The company states that they cannot report my continued payments because the reaffermation was part of the bankruptcy and they are not allowed to report anything after the bankruptcy was filed. My question would be: Why can they report the late but not the on time payments? The status is paid in full but it looks as though I haven't made a payment since 5/2001 and that payment was late.

"Why can they report the late but not the on time payments? The status is paid in full but it looks as though I haven't made a payment since 5/2001 and that payment was late."

Beats me! It's strange that it's paid in full though.

I think that they should either report accurately or not at all.

It really isn't strange that it is showing as paid, I paid it off in June 2002. They haven't reported any of the payments made between 6/2001 and 6/2002.

Oh, well, in that case insist on COMPLETE reporting, including your payments.

Well, I filed for Bankruptcy in March and received a discharge in July. I discharges about $150,000 in credit card debt (yes, it was that big).

Anyway, I started reading this group and as a result I got my "free" reports, which of course were all screwed up. About 50% of the cards were showing balances and open accounts.

It has taken me 4 months to get the first cleanup done. I initially mailed an actual copy of the discharge and schedule F (listing the cards included) to all three credit reporting agencies. This cleaned up all accounts except for three of them. These three would continuously report open with balances at every online dispute.

I had to actually find the phone and fax number of each of the card's "bankruptcy" dept and fax them the discharge. Then they fixed it in a couple of days.

I went from a score of of less than 500 with all three agencies (prior to the bankruptcy filing) to a FICO (equifax) of 630, 600 with Experian and 620 with Transunion. Not too bad considering that this is just 4 months after the discharge and I still have about 20 "charge offs" listed and that I have not tried to clean up.

I'm ready to try to get an auto lease (I am still paying the Ford lease, but ford won't budge from listing the car lease as included in bankruptcy, when it was not) and see what terms I can get. Looking at Leasecompare.com, even with a FICO score of 640 you can get pretty good rates (they list 700 as a "A" rating).

Question: is it worth going after the "Charged off" accounts, when they are also listed as "included in bankruptcy"? I have not seen a "definite" answer to that. Thanks.

-- Neptune 2000

If you REALLY want to know, fax your report to Mr. Quinn at Fair Isaac and ask him. Nobody really knows what goes into scores.

Also, for the other readers, you did way too much work. And you missed a great opportunity to have all these accounts deleted. Actually, you didn't really miss the opportunity, since the SOL for credit reporting violations is 2 years, but people never sue once it's fixed. You could have just sued the bureaus and creditors who continued to report balances, you would have ended up with at least several thousand and pretty clean reports.

I'm a little confused (as usual).

When you're talking about accounts that were included in BK, and the BK has "fallen off" your report, wouldn't the accounts be reported past the 7 year point?

Aren't BK's reported for 7-10 years depending on the type?

Also, a lot of companies will report accounts that were included in BK as "charged-off as bad debt". Unless these accounts were charged off PRIOR to the BK, they can't legally report it that way. (If you can convince the CRA's of that, of course).

Send a copy of your BK papers with a list of accounts that were included and highlight the filing date of the BK.

My plan to remove the "unknow" bankruptcy accounts is to get the creditors to send me a letter stating that the account is closed and when it is closed. The problem with the unknown accounts reporting is they are still listed as open so FICO counts them as late. Anytime you file bankruptcy the accounts are closed right away so they are no longer open!

I have gotten most of the unknown accounts removed by disputing since the companies either don't care or were sold.

I have received letters from some creditors and all they say is "Account Number XXXXXX, was closed on 01/01/1999 and was reported to the credit bureaus on 02/01/1999. This proves that the account is closed and should be reported as such. Send this letter to the credit bureau and it should resolve the unknown problem.

Has anyone else attempted this?

Trixie, yes, accounts should drop off before the BK.

However "Send a copy of your BK papers with a list of accounts that were included and highlight the filing date of the BK." -- that's NOT a good idea.

Thread title: "Getting "included in bankruptcy" accounts deleted "

How do you think you'll get the account deleted after you sent them the discharge paper?

And CRBKiller, I can't recall ever seeing "unknown" accounts. What exactly are you talking about?

At least on my credit report, the accounts that are listed in bankruptcy have an "Unknown" status and are listed as open. This is the main reason they continue to count as late or deliquent. They have no balance information and some even are missing dates. Just disputing the items with the credit bureaus gets nowhere as they just say they are in bankruptcy. Nevermind they are still showing as open!!

Most of my bankruptcy accounts were deleted by disputing. Experian doesn't have any left and TransUnion only has 1 which should be gone soon. Equifax is the hold out and I'm working the creditors now. I have 2 accounts left to get deleted. Then on to the discharged chapter 13 bankruptcy.

An "unknown" status is not negative, the bankruptcy notation is. They should never be listed as open.

Fortunately it sounds like you're about done.